Tech Meets Art

Tech Meets Art

The storytellers behind your favorite Pixar movies — Toy Story, Finding Nemo, WALL-E, Coco — are artists. But did you know they’re also scientists? Behind the scenes, they use math, science and code to create worlds that audiences can believe in. And as movie-making technology has advanced, these storytellers have been able to tell deeper and richer stories. Plus, notes today’s guest — Danielle A. Feinberg, Director of Photography for Lighting and Visual Effects Supervisor at Pixar Animation Studios — they’ve also discovered the opportunity for broader cultural representation in film.

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Credits

The Girls in Tech Podcast is produced by Tote + Pears.
Music By: Adrian Dominic Walther

Featured In This Episode

Danielle Feinberg is an American cinematographer and Director of Photography for Lighting at Pixar Animation Studios. She worked on A Bug’s Life, Toy Story 2, Monsters, Inc., Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, Cars and Ratatouille. She directed lighting for the Academy Award-winning films WALL-E, Brave and Coco.

Transcript

Adriana Gascoigne (00:00):

I’m Adriana Gascoigne, founder of Girls in Tech, and this is the Girls in Tech Podcast, where we’re discussing the ways tech is always evolving and helping the world evolve too. Listen in, get inspired and learn how you can use your skills to create the change you want to see in the world. Here’s your host, Zuzy Martin-Aly.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (00:21):

There’s a company that will value you for you. There’s a tech job where your skillset and unique perspectives are appreciated. By inviting you to share the real you, the Girls in Tech jobs board helps you find that job, so that you can take the next step in your career with confidence, go to jobs.girlsintech.org today. That’s jobs.girlsintech.org.

Danielle Feinberg (00:45):

If I was giving advice to my younger self, going out there looking for jobs, I think for me, this perfect combo of art and tech means that I’m looking for things that give some indication it’s both. I’m looking for a great company. I’m looking for great people. I’m also looking for something that truly is a combination of art and tech, because sometimes they’re really one or the other. And for me, that’s where the kind of excitement and magic is.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (01:11):

For years, people have been sharing their concerns about Hollywood’s lack of diversity, both onscreen and behind the camera; gender, cultural and racial gaps, riddled with stereotypes that personally drive me crazy. We know that the danger in this is that media is so powerful, and the images we see on screen leave strong imprints in our minds, creating that unconscious bias that we don’t even realize.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (01:39):

Thankfully, a few pioneers have stepped up to address this important issue and make changes to correct this misrepresentation, both in film and on TV. At Pixar Animation Studios, the creators of Academy award-winning films, Finding Nemo, WALL-E and my favorite, Coco, are working hard to make important strides, using science and art to tell diverse stories that introduce the world to a broader range of cultures, people and ideas.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (02:08):

They’re creating nuanced characters and stories that don’t rely on stereotypes to open audiences’ eyes to new worlds. Storytellers work with creators, using math, science, and code to design fantastically elaborate worlds and multifaceted characters.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (02:28):

My guest today is one of those creators, Danielle Feinberg, director of photography for lighting and visual effects supervisor at Pixar Animation Studios. She says that as movie-making technology has advanced, storytellers have been able to tell deeper and richer stories that allow so many to see themselves on screen like never before.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (02:50):

How young were you when you started getting involved? When did you know you wanted to go in this direction?

Danielle Feinberg (02:56):

When I was in college, I was studying computer science and the class that I was really, really excited to take was computer graphics. And so I couldn’t take it till my junior year and I was so nerdy that the year before, I emailed the professor and said, “Is there anything I could do before the class?” And I got this really confused email back, because I don’t think there’s a lot of Harvard students that are like, “Can I pre-do work for your class next year?” He’s still a good friend of mine, so clearly it made some kind of impression.

Danielle Feinberg (03:24):

But I was just so excited and I got into the class and it was a lot of the programming behind sort of putting images up. But one day the professor turned off the lights and he showed those early Pixar short films from late 80s and early 90s. So this is in probably late ’94, ’95. And it is a very clear moment for me of when those played, I was like, “That’s what I want to do.” And nobody knew what Pixar was. There was nobody doing it. These short films were some of the first computer animation we had seen. There were only Pixar and one or two other small places that really you could have ever even found anywhere. There was barely even internet back then to go search them out.

Danielle Feinberg (04:01):

But it was so clear to me. Before that, I’m like, “Well, what will I do with this programming degree I’m going to end up with?” And then it was like, “That’s what I’m doing. I’m going to spend all my time, everything I do is going to be trying to get a job doing that.”

Zuzy Martin-Aly (04:14):

And you specifically went after Pixar and you’ve been working for them ever since you graduated from Harvard.

Danielle Feinberg (04:19):

So I moved to San Francisco and I have a job doing what long ago, a thing called multimedia; so sort of programming a little bit of art stuff. And then I met someone who worked at Pixar and she was friends with one of my roommates. And she said, “Hey, I know how much you like Pixar. Now’s a really good time to apply, because they’re staffing up for their second film,” which was A Bug’s Life. And I did not remember this, but years later she told me that I said, “Oh, I don’t think I have enough experience to apply yet.” And she said, “No, you’re applying right now.”

Danielle Feinberg (04:48):

And I applied, and I actually applied for two different jobs; the first job I did not get. And then I got a call back from someone who said, “We talked to this other group you applied for,” which was a software engineering job. “I’m someone on the movie. Will you come in for another interview?” And I tried to play it all cool like, “Oh sure, I could come in.” But meanwhile, I was screaming inside. I’m like, “All I want to do is work for Pixar.”

Danielle Feinberg (05:14):

And it turned out, it was so brilliant because I thought what I should be doing is being a software engineer, because I had done this computer science degree. But getting onto A Bug’s Life put me on a completely different track on the movies, which I’m so much better suited for because of the combo of art and tech and kind of people stuff. And so it was this stroke of great luck that I didn’t get the first position, but got the second position.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (05:36):

Tell us a little bit about the skills that are needed to make these stories come to life, and a little bit about your work at Pixar today.

Danielle Feinberg (05:43):

Yeah. So I think the cool thing about Pixar computer animation, much like maybe in a live-action film, is that there’s all these different things you could do on the movie. So I ended up in lighting, you could do modeling or camera, or you could be an animator, of course, or you can be someone in the art department who went to art school. You can be a finance person or marketing or publicity; there’s so many things you can do. And if project management is your thing, you can be a department manager and eventually a producer.

Danielle Feinberg (06:12):

And so I think for some of the stuff I do that’s really the combo of art and tech, now you can go to school and get a degree in visual effects or computer animation type of thing. Or sometimes people call it digital media or there’s various different names for it. Before that became as prevalent, you either usually had computer science or maybe an engineering degree, which you could still apply those. Or you might have gone to art school and then you were sort of technically minded, so you could pick up the computer part of it.

Danielle Feinberg (06:40):

But we have people who have PhDs in math that are in our sort of research and software engineering group. And again, we have people who went to art school. We have people who did completely other things; studied English or finance or something, and there’s a place for them too, so there’s all kinds of skills. I would say in terms of actual skills, making movies, this is very a sort of team collaborative thing. So having the ability to do kind of team-like stuff like banding together to make something happen, but also a lot of communication and being able to kind of work with people.

Danielle Feinberg (07:13):

I spend a lot of time dissecting what I hear from a director, in terms of talking about visuals, about how you actually turn that into an image. So being able to kind of listen and imagine things and boil them down into kind of an action plan, figuring out how you can get things done on time. There’s such a variety of things.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (07:28):

So I love what you said in your TED Talk, by the way, Danielle’s TED Talk has over 3 million views.

Danielle Feinberg (07:34):

It’s crazy.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (07:36):

How does that feel? Just, let’s pause for a minute. How does it feel to have this talk have over 3 million views, where you’re essentially telling people that they can be artists and scientists together? So how does it feel to have over 3 million views in your TED Talk?

Danielle Feinberg (07:51):

Totally surreal. I mean, I never in a million years would have imagined that’s how that played out. I got asked to do that, and all you’re trying to do is honestly, not make a fool of yourself and maybe have a message that could resonate with people and especially a message that matters to me. So as a girl growing up who loved math and science and loved art, but being told, “Well, you can’t have a job doing art,” and honestly being told a lot as a girl, you can’t do technology either, it was sort of like, “Well, what am I going to talk about that matters deeply to me and that I wish someone would’ve told me when I was young and giving me that sort of courage?” And so then the idea that 3 million people have watched that, is pretty astounding.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (08:31):

Let’s step back and talk about the industry a bit. Historically, film and representation in Hollywood of cultures and ethnicities, has really been misrepresented; exacerbating stereotypes many, many times, and marginalizing people. I’d love to know your opinion on why cultural representation really matter. Why does diversity matter in film?

Danielle Feinberg (08:56):

It’s always been clear to me how much it matters, being a lesbian and never seeing anyone on TV. And then suddenly Ellen was on TV and you’re like, “Oh my God, there’s someone that I can relate to that’s sort of normalizing what otherwise maybe feels not normal or something for me.”

Danielle Feinberg (09:15):

But when we got to work on Coco and getting to do all of this, going to Mexico, visiting real families where they live in their homes during the holiday and really sort of doing a deep dive. And then we had a whole crew of cultural consultants for the movie that really made sure that we were honoring the culture that we were trying to represent as a bunch of mostly white Americans. They made sure that we were honoring the culture, honoring the holiday and really sort of trying to stay true to it. And it became this thing for us where we were actually terrified we were going to get it wrong, because we were trying to represent something that wasn’t ours.

Danielle Feinberg (09:52):

And then the film came out and I got to talk to people afterward, it became clear to me how much diversity matters, inclusion matters, representation though, really on a screen. So a big screen, or even on your phone or something, because so many people came up to me after that and just said, “We don’t ever get to see our culture properly represented,” or, “It was such a beautiful story of Mexico,” or various things.

Danielle Feinberg (10:19):

My favorite sort of anecdote of how representation matters, is I was at my high school after doing a panel or something, I had gone back. And this girl came up to me and she waited for everyone else to ask their questions, and then she said, “I want to thank you for Coco.” And she started crying and she was sort of struggling to get it out. She said, “I watched it with my brother and my brother pointed at the screen and said, ‘That boy looks like me.'” And she said, “We don’t ever get to see that and it just meant so much.”

Danielle Feinberg (10:48):

And I think that there is enormous power in film and TV, in terms of sort of celebrating, and for me, sort of normalizing who I am in a lot of ways. And that there’s, in my opinion, no faster way for those things to really reach broad audiences and sort of reach that level. And so it has enormous power and you can use it well, or you can use it poorly.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (11:15):

Coco for me, was a game-changer, because as you know, I’m Cuban American and watching the film and seeing my Abuela on the screen, even though the film is about the beautiful Mexican culture, there are so many similarities seeing the [inaudible 00:11:32] and seeing that the family struggle and how honor and duty is such a big part of the conversation. Tell us about the culture at Pixar and how you’re choosing these stories to have more representation and be more diverse, not only with cultures, but with gender as well.

Danielle Feinberg (11:48):

Yeah. Pixar was this teeny tiny little place back in the day. So I started there in 1997. They had just made Toy Story, the first feature-length computer-animated film. And so it was like just making it up as they went. And so I jumped into that for the second film, A Bug’s Life. And it was a tiny little studio, the computer animation films take us on average four years to make, so you’re just trying to survive as a film studio. And you know how many bad films are out there when you make these expensive computer-animated films, if they don’t do well, you’re probably done for.

Danielle Feinberg (12:21):

So just hanging on and trying to tell from the very beginning, they decided the stories that would be told were the directors, they will come from the director; we have never taken outside scripts. And so they became these very personalized stories. And so Finding Nemo, the father was struggling with his son growing up and not really needing him anymore and things like that.

Danielle Feinberg (12:42):

But at a certain point, after Pixar had become established and as a movie studio and has this library of great films that connect with people, it became like, “Okay, well now you’re not just trying to survive. You have all this influence and you can reach so many people. So what are you going to do with it really? It’s not enough to just tell people’s personal stories, which are fascinating, but if all of your directors are white men, then you’re going to have all the same kinds of stories,” right?

Danielle Feinberg (13:11):

And so looking around and trying to figure out who within the company, because we tend to sort of not completely, but look at the storytellers in the company and how can we kind of champion them in different ways. And so we’ve done that through our short film program, in our recent spark shorts, which are the even shorter shorts, and everybody gets a chance at being able to do those, and so a real diverse range of voices. And so how can you kind of lift people up from within. But also looking at how do we diversify overall at Pixar, so we get just more voices, not only as the single director, whose story you’re telling, but the people that are in the room and can chime in and say, “You know what, as a computer science woman, that doesn’t resonate for me or whatever it is.”

Danielle Feinberg (13:54):

I think we’ve made a lot of great progress and the movie I’m working on now, has a female director who’s young and has a really different voice. And it’s going to be a really fun movie. It’s all secret, of course.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (14:06):

Can you tell us anything about it?

Danielle Feinberg (14:09):

I can’t. Nothing has been told about it.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (14:13):

That’s okay. Well, we know it’s a woman directing and she’s young and great. Okay.

Danielle Feinberg (14:16):

And it’s going to be really fantastic and it feels really different and fun and exciting. And then we just have really worked hard. Our short film, Sanjay’s Super Team is Sanjay, an Indian guy who made that. That’s all mythical and wonderful. And then I got to work on this short film, I guess two summers ago called Loop. That’s part of those spark shorts that had an African American boy who was modeled after an Oakland teenager, and then a nonverbal autistic girl. And it was actually voiced by a nonverbal, local autistic girl.

Danielle Feinberg (14:49):

And just a lot of really cool stuff, where you have more and more people who are really paying attention to it and trying to tell a variety of stories, because instead of just the studio that’s hanging on and trying to survive to make films, now we’re trying to figure out how do you use what you have to sort of reach broader audiences and champion more people and more stories.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (15:09):

So the beautiful thing is that once these films get made, as we’ve seen with Coco and many others, they do resonate with audiences tremendously. Why do you think that is the case?

Danielle Feinberg (15:20):

How excited are you when you watch a TV show and it’s unlike anything you’ve ever seen before? It’s telling a story you knew nothing about. There’s nothing more exciting than that. And so I think we’ve been sold this sort of lie of, “Well, marketing executives say that teenage boys are the biggest marketing and they go see movies about robots,” or something like that.

Danielle Feinberg (15:41):

And so if the truth is that people are excited by new things and we’re telling new, fresh stories, and it’s not the same old stuff. For years and years, all we had was TV sitcoms to watch at night. And now we have such a diversity of stories to watch. And so I think people love fresh new things and they love learning about other people and other cultures and stuff. And so I think that there’s a huge sort of world out there that we can now tell stories about.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (16:10):

I love how you described in your TED Talk, the underwater scene in Nemo. Can you describe how the lighting was created, so that we can learn a little bit about how you brought that magic to life?

Danielle Feinberg (16:22):

Yeah. So the funny thing in our system, because I think sometimes it’s really hard for people to imagine what computer lighting is. But our system really starts by mimicking real light, so if we don’t put any lights in it, we’ll actually generate black footage. And so if it’s sunset where I’m going to put the sun in, which I have a little icon of a light I move around in this three-dimensional world. Like if you’re in a video game, running through a world, that’s what we have inside the computer. And I set the color of it, and maybe I’ll put some fog in, if it’s a foggy sunset or something.

Danielle Feinberg (16:51):

I’m vastly simplifying it, but we have millions of controls over the type of light we do. So for something like finding Nemo, to make things look underwater, you change the color as it goes away from the eyes. So it ends up at blue far away and you only get reds close up. And then we put some fog beams coming down and then the ribbons of light called [inaudible 00:17:09] that you might see at the bottom of the pool, we used to do that too. And so all of these things kind of layered together and make it look underwater, but all of that is the elements of lighting that we’re putting together.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (17:19):

So, if someone was interested in combining this art of storytelling with science and they wanted this career path, would you recommend computer animation? Or, I know you are so passionate about lighting, if you could talk a little bit about finding that niche.

Danielle Feinberg (17:34):

Yeah. I think now you could go to school for computer animation or visual effects and there’s a lot of pathways within there. So that could be straightforward if like, “I don’t know quite which of these things in the movies I am totally into,” but that’s the way you get to sample lighting, special effects, camera, animation, different things.

Danielle Feinberg (17:52):

I think for lighting itself, there’s a pretty serious artistic component to it, that if you aren’t artistic, you probably aren’t going to end up being a lighter. You might end up being one of those other, like a software engineer, or we have all these people who do coding for the underneath. But for lighting specifically, it’s a very color driven thing. It’s very much about composition. “How do I make a character look appealing? How do I make things look sort of dimensional and have depth,” because a computer can really flatten things out very quickly.

Danielle Feinberg (18:20):

But you also have to be able to kind of problem solve what’s going on in the software. And so if you’re the type of person that can get into any kind of software and start figuring out why something went wrong, then you probably have that adeptness. And then it’s just about sort of developing your creative eye.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (18:35):

So you’re saying if someone is passionate about storytelling and film, essentially there are many, many different jobs within technology and film. How do you recommend that a person discovers what they’re good at, or which direction they should go in?

Danielle Feinberg (18:50):

So I guess it all depends on where in your sort of life you are. So if you’re a student, if you’re a high school student or a middle school student, there’s software you can download for free, because of course they’re student versions of things. And so we use software called Maya for some of our stuff made by Autodesk. There’s a student version of that, that you could almost make an entire movie in that. And there’s tons of stuff online where you can watch videos about how to use it. You could use that as an adult too, for sure.

Danielle Feinberg (19:16):

There’s something called Blender that I think a lot of students … I think it tends to be a little more code heavy, but you can make really wonderful stuff doing that. And I think you kind of have to start doing all the things to start figuring out which are the things that are the things you like. Each one is a little different combination of kind of artistic and technical, and so you start figuring out what’s the balance.

Danielle Feinberg (19:36):

For me, I loved lighting, because for me, it’s when the world comes to life, all the kind of mood and emotion and everything comes to life, and so that’s why I got really into it. I really liked modeling, because you can write code and suddenly things are appearing on the screen in a really cool way.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (19:52):

That is very cool. I keep thinking about the importance of lighting and going back to Coco, how it brought such a warmth to the film. And I’d love to hear your opinion on how you feel lighting or the result of technology overall, can make these stories deeper, richer, and even more diverse.

Danielle Feinberg (20:13):

Lighting is one of those things. I think that is fairly invisible to sort of just your average person watching something. I don’t know that they’re normally thinking about lighting, it just kind of is. And so it’s almost this invisible thing that’s sort of playing with the emotion of things, where when you’re looking at the actor and they’re crying, obviously it’s a very obvious thing. But when we’re doing these movies, we’re trying to figure out what is the lighting that will support that story moment? So if it’s very sad, we’re going to do something with the lighting and do it. All of us are doing that, so the camera department is doing the same thing, animation obviously is doing it; the most obviously.

Danielle Feinberg (20:52):

So I think that lighting is this sort of invisible piece that is helping to support the emotion of the story in this really important way. So, I don’t know what it is about it being sort of invisible, but it’s this gentle hand that’s sort of helping support the emotion of the story.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (21:10):

How do you think animation will continue to evolve? It feels like it changes so much with every year that goes by and you can see that on the screen with every new film. How do you think it will evolve in the next five to ten years?

Danielle Feinberg (21:23):

Yeah. Great question. I think we’re always trying to push more and more and more. And so at Pixar, whatever the director in the story department, the art department comes up with, if it’s going to help the story, then we try like crazy to get it on the screen. And so it’s just more and more capabilities opening up, in terms of what we can do in the amount of time we have.

Danielle Feinberg (21:43):

I think the other thing you’re seeing is that, when you see live-action movies, like a movie like I don’t know, Gravity, or you see movies like the live-action remake of The Lion King and different things and Jungle Book, all of this stuff is starting to come together where the lines are getting a little blurred about what is done by the computer and what’s real life, and in video games, video games are looking better and better. And so I think you’re starting to see where you’re able to share some of the tools, which means they’ll just advance more and more.

Danielle Feinberg (22:12):

And so I think really, if I were to summarize it, it’s just that we’ll be able to tell any story we want, which we already can, but to even more depth, I think as we keep going, you can think up even crazier things that you want to bring to life. Like when we were trying to figure out the Land of the Dead in Coco, it was this overwhelming, this has to be a world filled with people because it needs to feel like this vibrant, alive place. It has to be colorful. The director wanted it to be sort of tall, versus the sort of more horizontal, small town, Mexico, so it felt really different.

Danielle Feinberg (22:47):

And by the time it was designed and we’re starting to build it, in lighting we looked at it and the intro shot to the Land of the Dead had eight and a half million lights in it, which is probably almost eight and a half million more lights than we had normally done before. It used to be 1000 lights was a lot. And so we have to take technology that sort of existed for the small thing and then advance it and advance it so that we can make that world feel alive and vibrant. We don’t want to go back to the director and say, “Well, the buildings can’t really have lights on them. It can’t really be at night,” something like that. You got to simplify that even though the other departments figured out how to do it. So we just kind of keep making these grander and grander worlds, being able to put more finesse in the movement of cloth or hair, different things like that.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (23:32):

What job titles would you say would be good job titles for people to look at, at different points in their career? And I’m also wondering, aside from younger women, how about women in their middle career that perhaps are working in tech in another industry and would love to go into film? What do you recommend for them as far as job titles entry?

Danielle Feinberg (23:53):

If I was giving advice to my younger self, going out there looking for jobs, I think for me, this perfect combo of art and tech, means that I’m looking for things that give some indication it’s both. I’m looking for a great company. I’m looking for great people. I’m also looking for something that truly is a combination of art and tech, because sometimes they’re really one or the other. And for me, that’s where the kind of excitement and magic is. For other people, they love tech or they love art and that’s great.

Danielle Feinberg (24:23):

I think also, I wish I could have told my younger self of, don’t worry so much about what all the qualifications for the job are. If you have some of them and you’re interested, then you just take a shot. Because sometimes you might get the job, at the very least, you get some experience interviewing. And in the other case, like what happened to me, someone says, “We loved this candidate. She wasn’t quite right for us in this department, but your department should look at her.” And that worked out fantastically for me at Pixar.

Danielle Feinberg (24:51):

So I do think the big thing that I would have to remind myself now, is not to feel as though I had to have everything on a job listing, because I think that does trip people up quite a lot. And having watched interviews over time, it’s not necessary. You can extract whether someone will be able to learn on the job, and with plenty of computer stuff, there’s plenty of learning that has to happen on the job.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (25:15):

That’s great advice, great advice. And any final thoughts for young women or women in general that are looking to go in the computer animation direction?

Danielle Feinberg (25:27):

I think the beauty of computer animation, is that there are a vast multitude of jobs and it might appear that there’s only a couple of paths, but there’s really a lot of paths. And you can focus on big studios, but there’s also a lot of little studios doing different things, like commercials or various different things. And sometimes, spending a little time in one of those smaller studios, you get to try a whole bunch of different things, just by virtue of it being a small studio, that then gets you on the pathway of the thing that you discover you love the most. And that’s the springboard into maybe one of the bigger studios, if that’s what you’re interested in. The smaller studios can be a ton of fun though, from friends who have worked there, that they just get to do a lot of different things and it’s super fun.

Danielle Feinberg (26:14):

So the thing for me, that’s so amazing about computer animation, is now that the reach that we have and the stories that you can tell. And really, the thing that excites me, maybe it’s already obvious by now, is really being able to represent all kinds of different groups up on the big screen and the power that this media has.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (26:34):

Thank you so much. I think you’ve given so much good advice and such a unique view into your world, and I thank you so much for your time.

Danielle Feinberg (26:42):

Right on. Thank you so much. It’s been so much fun to talk.

Zuzy Martin-Aly (26:47):

Are you ready to sharpen your skills, get inspired and learn how to thrive in tech? At the one day Girls in Tech virtual conference on September 9th, you’ll benefit from skill-building sessions, personal development workshops, networking, and so much more. Connect with people from around the world as you invest in your personal and professional growth, plus it’s free. To learn more, go to girlsintech.org/conference. That’s girlsintech.org/conference.

Adriana Gascoigne (27:16):

Thank you for listening to today’s episode. The Girls in Tech Podcast is a production of Tote + Pears.

Adriana Gascoigne (27:22):

Were you inspired by what you heard today? Head over to girlsintech.org to find more resources for starting and advancing a career in tech, including our jobs board and personal and professional development programs designed to help you excel. And be sure to tune in every other Tuesday for new episodes. See you next time.

Credits

The Girls in Tech Podcast is produced by Tote + Pears.
Music By: Adrian Dominic Walther

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